Taking the Free Market Faith conversation deeper, I have invited my sister, Gretchen Snoeyenbos, to guest post on Deep River. Being my sister, Gretchen has the gift of knowing, most of the time, what I'm trying to say even when I'm not saying it explicitly (for all those with siblings you know what a blessing and curse this can be). I'll be sharing my own follow-up post after this.
After reading Anna’s post and the comments that followed, I am convinced that we are conflating two sets of questions. On the one hand, we have the choice between a diocesan method of governance and a congregational one. It should be noted here that regardless of the choice made, the work of the church will primarily fall to the people of the church. Ask any of the over-involved Catholic churchwomen that I grew up with how much work and process is involved in running a diocesan parish and get ready for an earful. Moving away from a congregational model in terms of how we call pastors to long-standing congregations, who bears the responsibility for the budget, and most importantly whether the Church’s stance on theological issues will be decided by congregations for the denomination or by the denomination for congregations is simply moot. We are congregational, legally and culturally.
On the other hand, we have questions of how the vision and mission of the congregation will be decided and carried out. These are the most critical questions to ask and reach deeply into culture and theology. There are three basic questions:
- Who will address the mundane, daily aspects involved in being a worldly organization? Will there be a committee set up to decide every question of church policy – to meet to decide when to call the plumber? This is where you get economies of scale and have the option to “hire out” the work. I think we can all agree that these mundane matters are most ideally not foisted on the laity as they don’t serve the deeper mission of the church and, frankly, we all know how to call the plumber.
- How will we organize the missional work of the church? This is a slightly deeper question. Social justice work, fundraising activities, fellowship, etc., are activities that lend themselves to committee structure. It trains leaders and allows for deepening commitment to the Church. This is also the work that can most drag a congregation down. It always multiplies and seems to lead to committees for the sake of having committees and events that have come to exist only for the repetition. The solution is simple, but hard. Examine your committees and events. Ask yourself if each event clearly and directly serves the mission of the church. If yes, keep going. If not, stop doing it – even if you have done it for the last 140 years.
Moving deeper into this question causes us to ask if topic-based committees are the best way to do this. Many new church plants are experimenting with covenant groups that meet to undertake all the aspects of church mission together as an integrated body. This can encourage a more balanced approach to church life so that no one is forced to neglect worship, fellowship or service because the committee work for one has sucked up every available hour. But, above all, whatever model you choose will fail if it is not missional.
- This leads us directly to the question of setting the mission. And what I think is the most critical question implicit in Anna’s post. Will the direction of a congregation be determined by a committee, or by a pastor? I believe that the mission and vision of a church are to be set by the head minister. Our role as laity is to give our input to the minister as he develops the mission and to hold her accountable to that mission and serve the mission over the years of her ministry. Critical to this is the idea that a minister’s service will be long – on the order of decades – so that this process does not become a futile cycle of discernment every 5-10 years.
Under this model, the church is not called to merely continue to exist in a locality. The Church will not continue if people are not inspired and challenged by the vision. People will vote with their feet – as they already do.
Why does the mission need to be determined by a single person and not a committee? Because a single person is best able to poke their head up over the hedgerows and see where the road leads. Because a single person is more easily a prophetic voice able to call us back to right relation with God and each other. And, most fundamentally, because this is what parish ministers are called to do. This is their job – their divinely called and temporally compensated line of work. There are two ways to look at this and both lead to the same conclusion.
- Ministers are professionals who we hire to be CEOs of the church and report to the board (parish committee) or
- Ministers are divinely called to be prophetic shepherds leading us on the spiritual paths we are walking.
Regardless of what model you ascribe to, over-reliance on committees and polling will defeat the purpose of the job.
We in the liberal church have been poorly served by our ministers in this regard over the last however many decades. We have, in a fit of overdeveloped love of process asked them to hand over their role to us and they have. By handing this crucial aspect of their work over to the laity, ministers cut themselves off at the ankles and became mere employees working long hours attending irritating committee meetings and constantly called to account by multitudes of ever narrower interest groups. No wonder the best and the brightest do not go into the ministry in the liberal tradition. Leaders, and that is what ministers are, should lead. And we laity – whatever leadership skills we may possess – are not the leaders of our churches. We are followers. Those of us who lead most profoundly in the secular world may find the most rest in following.
How are we to guard against mere consumerism? Expect ever deepening commitment from the laity – but not to futile cycling of outdated and directionless committee work. Ask for ever deepening commitment to the mission of the Church and people will seek out this sustaining commitment.


My first question when someone is advocating ministerial leadership as the remedy to poor lay leadership is this: How many ministers do you know well?
ReplyDeleteMost of the ministers I know well went into the ministry because they want to help the people in the pews through life crises and maybe preach and lead worship a bit. This is good, since most churches are small, and this is exactly what small churches need.
Most ministers don't want to align a church to a success vision, and they've received next to no training on how to do so. Most ministerial callings are callings to be a pastor, that is, to take care of a flock, not to be a CEO.
The calling to be a prophet and the calling to be a pastor or a CEO are widely different, in practice. Prophets, real prophets, are not welcome in their home town, as Jesus put it. CEOs don't have the luxury of being true prophets—they have payrolls to meet and boards to report to. Prophets have considerably less personnel responsibility than CEOs, who don't usually wander around in the desert, with no flock, by themselves, calling for people to repent.
It's important we not have magical expectations of ministers. If your experience of congregationalism has been disillusioning, just wait until you ask a real world person to be pastor, prophet, and CEO simultaneously. How many people do you know personally who could pull that off, and would be interested in doing so for a minister's salary?
@Qoheletter - Thank you for reading. Personally, I know a lot of ministers and am currently serving on the ministerial internship committee for a fantastic new leader in the UUA.
ReplyDeleteIt saddens me that you have such low expectations for ministerial leadership. You seem to be painting them all as unlicensed therapists only capable of pastoral care. Many pastors specialize in pastoral care and that is a true gift. Other ministers are called to lead churches. Those are the ministers I would suggest we tap to lead our churches.
I think it's an insult to the profession that you bring up a minister's salary as a reason for us to lower our expectations. ALL ministers are worth far more then they are paid and trust me, they are not doing it for the money.
I'd say my expectations are realistic, based on years of observation and practice. The job description for a minister has grown exponentially over the past century—CEO probably being the latest addition to the list—and expectations that are too high, low pay, and low respect are a large part of why ministers have such poor health and such high burnout rates when compared to other professionals.
ReplyDeleteI'm not insulting ministers, I'm defending them.
Gretchen writing on Anna's blog:
ReplyDelete-snip-
Will the direction of a congregation be determined by a committee, or by a pastor? I believe that the mission and vision of a church are to be set by the head minister. Our role as laity is to give our input to the minister as he develops the mission and to hold her accountable to that mission and serve the mission over the years of her ministry.
Gretchen and Anna,
Once one gets away from major cities like Boston, Houston, Atlanta, etc, one finds there are lots of smaller towns that have Unitarian Universalist congregations without ordained ministers. This is a result of the post WWII "fellowship" movement that enabled the UU movement to grow into regions where there had been no UU's before.
Some of these congregations have grown large enough to hire ordained and non-ordained religious professionals.
However, some of these congregations have not done so. And this should not be viewed as a failing -- a smaller congregation in a small town doesn't have the resources to hire a minister. But these congregations do provide ministry and social justice work for their communities.
A large part of the UUA is made up of these smaller congregations and we shouldn't be dismissive of their contributions to the UU movement. A good friend of mine in an East Texas UU congregation is fond of pointing out that her small (approximately 50 person) UU congregation pays their fair share to the UUA while the largest congregation in our district doesn't pay fair share. They also were able to successfully complete the Welcoming Congregation program about 6 year ago (something that minister-led congregations in our district cannot do).
One final thought -- it may be harder to create a prophetic minister-driven congregation in many UU congregations because of our distrust of charismatic leadership (fear of the "cult of personality"), our distrust of emotion over reason, and our fear of concentrations of power in our congregations and the wider UU movement.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't a polity issue (Jeremiah Wright and Rick Warren operate in the same polity that we UUs operate in). But they didn't attempt to a personality-driven and charisma-driven ministry in a UU congregation either.
@Steve - Thanks Steve! Your second comment hits exactly where Gretchen (and I) were driving at. The idea is not to be dismissive of fellowships too small to have ministers - but to call upon those congregations with professional staff to let the staff do their job. Stop holding onto the reigns so tightly and allow our leaders to lead us. I am well aware that this goes against the UU culture that is distrustful of any concentration of power. My next post will better make the connection I was originally trying to make between our congregational roots and this fear of doing anything that isn't committee-driven.
ReplyDeleteYou are so wrong that I can't even tell you how wrong you are.
ReplyDeleteGretchen says, "Leaders, and that is what ministers are, should lead. And we laity – whatever leadership skills we may possess – are not the leaders of our churches. We are followers."
It is obvious to me that you have never been inside a black church. If you had, then you would know how wrong your statement is. The reason that prophets become prophets is because they have strong leaders with them. And especially in the black church, while it might seem like the minister is doing the vision, the real leaders are the church mothers--the older women who tell the minister what to talk about.
Look at Martin Luther King,Jr. Yes, he was a prophet. But he could only be that because there was A. Phillip Randolph and Bayard Rustin around, giving him the lay of the land so that he could be that prophet that you are talking about.
But let's talk about prophets for a minute. Prophets don't become prophets until they are dead. While they are alive, most of the time they are ignored or chewed up and spit out.
This is not an either-or situation. Strong leaders have strong laity involved in decision making. And strong laity understand that vision only becomes clear when there is interplay with a strong leader. If either side is off, it won't work.
Great conversation! As a member of a small lay led congregation, this has really got me thinking. Should a lay leader push the mission/ministry in a more
ReplyDeleteassertive and singular way? Should one (small) committee knock off all the administrative decisions? Should tasks be delegated to individuals for short stints (as opposed to committees)? Most our members (including the older ones) are done with committees, but we have not found a suitable replacement. This means either stuff doesn't get done or things get dumped on individuals. What to do? I feel like there should be a simple solution.
Great conversation! As a member of a small lay led congregation, this has really got me thinking. Should a lay leader push the mission/ministry in a more
ReplyDeleteassertive and singular way? Should one (small) committee knock off all the administrative decisions? Should tasks be delegated to individuals for short stints (as opposed to committees)? Most our members (including the older ones) are done with committees, but we have not found a suitable replacement. This means either stuff doesn't get done or things get dumped on individuals. What to do? I feel like there should be a simple solution.
You are so wrong that I can't even tell you how wrong you are.
ReplyDeleteGretchen says, "Leaders, and that is what ministers are, should lead. And we laity – whatever leadership skills we may possess – are not the leaders of our churches. We are followers."
It is obvious to me that you have never been inside a black church. If you had, then you would know how wrong your statement is. The reason that prophets become prophets is because they have strong leaders with them. And especially in the black church, while it might seem like the minister is doing the vision, the real leaders are the church mothers--the older women who tell the minister what to talk about.
Look at Martin Luther King,Jr. Yes, he was a prophet. But he could only be that because there was A. Phillip Randolph and Bayard Rustin around, giving him the lay of the land so that he could be that prophet that you are talking about.
But let's talk about prophets for a minute. Prophets don't become prophets until they are dead. While they are alive, most of the time they are ignored or chewed up and spit out.
This is not an either-or situation. Strong leaders have strong laity involved in decision making. And strong laity understand that vision only becomes clear when there is interplay with a strong leader. If either side is off, it won't work.
I'd say my expectations are realistic, based on years of observation and practice. The job description for a minister has grown exponentially over the past century—CEO probably being the latest addition to the list—and expectations that are too high, low pay, and low respect are a large part of why ministers have such poor health and such high burnout rates when compared to other professionals.
ReplyDeleteI'm not insulting ministers, I'm defending them.
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